May 5, 2010

Posted in Etiquette, Featured Articles, Safety | View Comments

Facebook Figure Skating Page: Venting about Little Skaters

Facebook Figure Skating Page: Venting about Little Skaters

A friend of mine sent me a Facebook page the other day. The page is called Attention Little Skaters: Get out of the way, or my jump WILL kill you. It has over 1,000 fans when I checked it last night (5-4-10).

I’ve posted a lot lately on this site about rink safety, bullying, and cyberbullying. These might not be issues at your rink, but you might have heard your skater or upper-level skaters complain about the little kids or the slow-moving adults on the ice. I’ve heard it from my own skater. Ice Girl is a pretty nice kid, but she complains when a brand-new skater gets in her way or when a coach plants herself and her student in the Lutz corner and won’t move for anyone.
I’m not a skater, I’m a mom. But I get it. I understand Ice Girl’s frustration, but she doesn’t take it further than a little grumping. She doesn’t growl at the kids or threaten to behead them with her blade.

I want to give these Facebook members the benefit of the doubt. I want to look at the page as a safe place to complain a little about the Basic 6 kid who nearly got smeared during someone’s program. I understand dark humor and its role in catharsis.

If it weren’t for the fact that I know some of these skaters try to run these little kids off the ice, it might be funny. But it’s not. The fan page loses its humor value when I know that this stuff is happening. It’s not tongue-in-cheek when it’s your own kid injured.

This week’s expert for Ask the Expert had a family emergency. I’ll reschedule her and her matching music and dresses post soon. Thanks! Ice Mom

Crushed violets

Ice Girl is a fan. Yeah. I learned this on the way home from ballet yesterday evening. I asked her why she voted Like on the Facebook page. Ice Girl said that she Liked the page because it’s true. She said that if those little kids don’t watch out, they’re going to get hurt or cause someone else to get hurt. It’s not that figure skaters are out to get them, she said, it’s that these kids don’t know enough to be safe on the ice.

No one is teaching these young skaters the rules before they go out on the ice, Ice Girl said. They don’t know that they have to move for a skater who is skating her program. They don’t know that they have to make way for a coach and student. They camp out in the Lutz corners and just spin. And spin. And spin.

She said that not only were the kids a danger to themselves and others, but not teaching them to respect the freestyle session rules means that some of these kids will become frustrated and stop skating. She said that having untrained figure skaters on the ice also encouraged higher level skaters to contract elsewhere. Our Saturday morning club ice at our rink tends to be kiddie hour, she said, and that’s why most of the higher level skaters avoid it.

Liking the page, Ice Girl said, doesn’t mean that she wants little kids off the ice or that she’s out to smear them. It just means that a lot of other people are having the same issues and they’re venting on the page. Mom, Mom, Mo-ooom. It’s no big deal.

Ice Mom is not a fan. This Facebook page looks mean spirited. At first glance, it reinforces the idea that figure skaters tend to be snobby and elitist. Look at the page and you will probably think figure skaters are unwelcoming and hypercritical.

Even though the Facebook page is a place for skaters to vent their spleens, perception is reality. It doesn’t matter how innocently the page began or whether or not the group has a point. When people perceive it to be mean, that makes it so.

I’m not one to censor speech. These skaters have a right to their opinions. I respect that. I don’t agree with their method, but I respect their right to have their opinions and to voice them.

I’m wondering about the other voices, though. Who is telling these figure skaters that their attitude isn’t cool? That this attitude appears unkind, unsafe, and unwise? Look around. Who are these kids’ coaches? Who are their parents? What is the board doing to make sure that the club has a positive, welcoming approach to new skaters? What are people doing to make sure that little skaters understand what to do on the ice?

Let’s start the conversation. Nearly 1,000 people have joined this Facebook Fan Page. Despite my criticisms, I’m pretty grateful that the page is there. It shows us parents that we have a problem that we need to fix.  We should be sitting down with our skaters and having the conversation about frustrations on the ice and how they should react to them. From a skater’s point of view, what should be done to solve the problem?

We also need to have the conversation with our skaters’ coaches. We need to make sure that our clubs’ coaches are reinforcing safe and respectful behavior on the ice. Parents need to ask coaches to train their young students to have some ice sense. We need to ask them to communicate with their high-level skaters the expectation that they welcome all skaters on the ice. We need to ask them to be vigilant and to stop improper skating behavior instead of letting bad attitudes and unsafe skating habits go unchecked.

So, parents, what do you think? Do we have a problem or am I blowing up a fun Facebook page way out of proportion? I encourage skaters and coaches to weigh in, too. Educate me about the skaters’ and coaches’ perspectives. Let’s start a dialogue about how we can meet all skaters’ needs.

Photo credits:
Little Skater and Coach: Thomas Hawk on Flickr.com Creative Commons
Crushed Violets: oksidor on Flickr.com Creative commons

  • Nicole

    ice mom because had she known to watch out and been able to skate away fast enough when the skaters music was on,that wouldnt have happened,its the perfect example of a skater not moving out of the way quick enough and getting really hurt. i think that ice rinks should get more creative with there skating sessions, like maybe they could divide each freestyle session by 1 level and only a few ages so the problem of beginners and little kids wont be a problem. BUT i do think that your point about it making it look like skaters are mean is true except i hardly doubt that anyone who isnt a skater would become a fan of the page and so therefore the people who like the page understand the reason the page is there.i havent seen the page myself, but i can understand both sides to the arguement. i understand all of what ice girl said and i actually complain about this same problem, at my ice rink my best friend was doing a skating routine with her music on and on a session, well when she was in the middle of a backwards spiral her blade hit a beginner girl on the side of her forehead and caused a pretty nasty cut.(it wasnt that she didnt see her, she did, but couldnt skate away fast enough.) this is where i agree with

  • Nicole

    ok dont read this comment because it somehow scrambeled everything i said…. this is what i meant,
    i havent seen the page myself, but i can understand both sides to the arguement. i understand all of what ice girl said and i actually complain about this same problem, at my ice rink my best friend was doing a skating routine with her music on and on a session, well when she was in the middle of a backwards spiral her blade hit a beginner girl on the side of her forehead and caused a pretty nasty cut.(it wasnt that she didnt see her, she did, but couldnt skate away fast enough.) this is where i agree with ice mom because had she known to watch out and been able to skate away fast enough when the skaters music was on,that wouldnt have happened,its the perfect example of a skater not moving out of the way quick enough and getting really hurt. i think that ice rinks should get more creative with there skating sessions, like maybe they could divide each freestyle session by 1 level and only a few ages so the problem of beginners and little kids wont be a problem. BUT i do think that your point about it making it look like skaters are mean is true except i hardly doubt that anyone who isnt a skater would become a fan of the page and so therefore the people who like the page understand the reason the page is there.

  • Nicole

    boy i sure am a spz with my typing today! i meant on my second comment to not read my first comment…i hope i dont find somethin else to correct in like another 5 minutes…LOL!

  • pegasus99

    Here's my rub; at our rink (and I'm still new) there are no rules of any kind posted. There seems to be a “wink wink, nod nod, by the way there's a rule you're breaking” aura about the place. Now I'm just nosy and brash enough to ask if I'm not sure, but most parents aren't.So, if I'm walking in off the street, there are no rules posted, and suddenly me and my kid are being lambasted for breaking rules we don't see, our reaction will be to leave. What's worse is being corrected by some snooty 4' girl in expensive tights while she plows snow on our skates and gets huffy in sparkling hair ribbons. Ouch. And then her parents correct us again once we get off the ice, usually not in terms of “you might get hurt” but “you messed up our daughter's spin.” Thanks.

    At a pool, these things are clearly spelled out; No diving at this end, shallow water here, don't linger under the diving board, etc. They are on big posters usually on three walls. Not so at a skating rink. It's just some low-friction free for all until the guards get on the ice and only talk rules when one gets broken. Or Princess Sparklypoo gets on and dominates the center of the Public skate and may God help you if your skate goes beyond that Cone. If the rules were spelled out, made clear, and posted or distributed to all new families at the rink, it would be a godsend. That way when I say, 'We can't do that,' and my son asks why, I can point to the rule. Little kids have massive respect for rules, so long as they are spelled out and made clear.

    I'm sorry these girls feel offended by new and slow skaters, but everyone has to start somewhere. The group seems mean spirited. There are slights and inconveniences all day everyday in our lives, and part of civility is tolerating them with grace. This feels like a graceless attempt to advertise that they are so much better skaters than the beginners, so they deserve major props. (I also had to love that the image they use as their profile pic was snagged from a pairs skating accident where the chick got cut by her partner's skate. Not wholly truth in advertising about a little kid getting killed by a Bigger Skater.)

  • Sk8nln

    I was just talking my my 9 year old dd about this. We have several “new” skaters on our freestyle ice and they are quite intimidated and not sure where to go. I asked her how she handles being on the ice with 15 year old skaters working senior moves as she is a 9 year old working on pre-juv. Her response – “Mom I have learned their patterns and know how to stay out of the way. You know I read the test manual.” I know she is a bit crazy that way and okay not a great deal of help to give pointers to the new moms who are asking:-(.

    One thing we do have is an ice etiquette contract that all skaters and parents must sign prior to taking the ice for any of our freestyle sessions. This is for club members and non-club skaters. A current skater and parent actually goes over the contract with them and I think this helps. Also this year we tried a mentor program where one of the seasoned skaters takes a new skater under their wings. The new skater knows they can go their mentor and ask questions. This has actually helped quite a bit. Does it take care of the worry no, but has opened the line of communication between our skaters and built a better community.

  • invisiblesk8r129A

    I don't think I would have a problem with the page, except that the comments are so mean spirited. That, and I have seen (and been involved in) more accidents between experienced skaters than advanced skaters and little kids. I make it a personal rule to avoid getting close to beginner skaters as much as possible, and I structure my practice time (and get there between 5 and 6:30am) to avoid them when I need to use large sections of the rink. And really I think I have more problems with coaches floating around being oblivious because they are focused on their skater than I do with little kids. Usually the little ones try to move and just aren't able to go that fast.

  • sk8rmomp

    I only have a minute, but aside from the ethical, moral and human issues (which I might have time to comment on later);

    I think that someone in authority, coach, parent, should let these skaters who “fan” this page, that in media training that USFS sponsors and probably other countries' federations as well, at their various higher level events, skaters are told not to post, say or do anything that they wouldn't want their mothers to read, hear, or know about.

    The problem with the page is that even though it might have been set up as a “rant” page with a humorous or light, cathartic exercise, that this by it's very nature will be used by mean spirited individuals who will take everyone on that page down with them. I hate to say it, but “Big Brother” is watching, and these kids should know that in the future, it would be a shame if, when they have a chance to go to an international event to represent their country, they might not be chosen due to something they did when they were young and ignorant.

    I would advise my child to stay far away from anything like this, lest he be tarred with the very same brush…(is that how they used to say it?) Or Birds of a Feather Flock Together…

  • Denise

    Let's start our own FB page for reasonable, friendly, compassionate skaters and parents. Let's post helpful, not hurtful suggestions. No drama, just down-to-earth advice. Any suggestions for names for our page?

  • szuszu

    The 1st thing to do is to get the management to post freestyle rules. But I still wonder, why can't the more experienced skaters try to be helpful and talk to the younger skaters? Most kids show up for the same ice time every week, there's no reason they can't say hello. I not asking them to be the ice police, and you can't just say: “get out of my lutz corner little kid” but you should able to say “this is where I need to jump when I do my routine and I may not see you, the safest place to practice your spins is in the other corner…” If your feeling really generous you might add keep up the good work or some positive comment. Most younger skaters are in awe of the more accomplished skaters and IMO would be happy to accommodate the request. And best of all, it feels better to be nice then to be mean.

  • mama_helada

    My daughter is a “little skater”. While she's been coached on what the rules are and tries to adhere to them, she's still young. I've found the young skaters aren't purposfully trying to hinder the older skaters, they just haven't developed that multitasking skill that allows them to focus on what their doing and truly pay attention to where they are in relation to other skaters as well. For that reason, I pick ice time for my daughter that is more for the little skaters.

    As far as rules not being posted, it's that way at our rink, too. The ice monitor does try to make the rules known, however, they are not actually posted anywhere. This could be due to us being smack in the middle of hockey country around here, where the figure skaters are pretty much viewed as interlopers who are 'visiting' during their alloted ice time.

  • http://xan-boni.blogspot.com/ Xan

    The issue is not snarky high level skaters or clueless little skaters. The issue is unresponsive management that refuses to fix and sometimes even to acknowledge the problem. I have a problem from the outset with mixed level ice, especially mixed level ice with no restrictions (for instance, no full runthroughs about Juvenile on ice with Prelim and lower skaters, or high ice means you must have an axel) but I understand that some ice doesn't have the enrollment to limit it. What needs to happen on especially bad ice is for EVERYONE on the session to boycott it until rink or club management fixes the problem.

  • TCC

    My 14 yr old skater who has all her doubles (except double axel) would agree with this Facebook page except would like to ad slow adult skaters & lower level kids of any age as well. And dumb coaches who park in Lutz corners… And any kids who just wanna stand around & talk. At out rink they can post rules all they want – no one reads them & the muchkins are clueless as to what a Lutz corner even is. I think that the coaches should be teaching these kids the rules, what a lutz corner is, how to move for someone doing a program, etc. Our rink doesn't even have the kids wear a sash or a vest though so I'm not holding my breath. (rolling eyes) My daughter has had girls literally skate into her when she is in the middle of a spin (how dumb can they be?!?!?) so I'm afraid I'm a parent who would be a “fan” of this FB page – except would not agree with any mean comments – but just venting I can agree with because sometimes it can be very frustrating, esp when ice time is so expensive and we all know darn well that some of these kids belong at public sessions. Also, disregarding my own child it is downright frightening to see these tiny kids out there with kids doing flying spins and double jumps – they are so small that one little run in will not end well at all – it makes me cringe to watch some of these freestyles! I cannot beleive that the parents even feel safe putting their munchkin out there! Of course our rink should have high level and low level freestyle separate but there is not enough ice time available to make that practical unfortunately….

  • ragamama

    I cannot WAIT until these people have kids of there own someday! I read some of the comments and it's just amazing to see that even grown adults are in on it. There was one in particular complaining about public sessions… Are you kidding me? Whatever, LAME!!! I get it, I have a little skater who is completely fearless and has never been intimidated by freestyles and higher level skaters but I make it a point to remind her of the rules every single time she takes to the ice. Freestyles are pretty much a prime example of controlled chaos, someone is always darting out of another skaters way. I've even seen high level skaters during competition warmups with only six skaters on the ice collide. Accidents don't discriminate.

  • mimi

    Does everyone forget that they were all “Little Skaters” once too? Have they ever tried to talk to the “Little Skater” or the coach with some suggestions. This just kills me. I understand their frustration, but part of growing up is trying to deal with the situation.

  • Maria

    Lost of these little kids don't even know what a lutz is, let alone why there are certain corners where they are traditionally practiced. I love the mentor/big buddy idea that someone posted above. These “older” skaters need to be reminded that once upon a time they WERE the little skater getting in the way, and the older skaters watched out for them. Now it's their turn.

  • szuszu

    Agreed Maria! Seems it's just a matter of being a good sport and remembering what it was like to be the least experienced one on the ice. Although from reading the other posts – some rinks are better the others…

  • http://www.Halushki.com Jozet at Halushki

    “…part of growing up is trying to deal with the situation.”

    I agree. Grousing and venting, yes, we all do it. However, at some point, why don't the older skaters show some leadership and get together and find a positive, proactive way to approach and fix the situation? Most skaters are part of some club, yes? The club isn't just for moms or parents to figure out how to fund raise and run a few test sessions – the club is the skaters' club. Get together, meet, discuss, and ask run an information session or put info in the newsletter. Explain the problem to the rink and ask to post a flier. Something. Griping, yes. But if you're griping and not continuously trying to do something about it, then really, stop griping. /grip off ;-)

  • http://www.Halushki.com Jozet at Halushki

    I LOVE the idea of a mentor/big buddy!

  • ohjennran

    wow! where is the dislike button for that group? Some of those fans are pretty harsh with their comments..
    I'm a mom with a little skater-if we go to a public session, DH or myself are with her trying to reduce any accidents, issues. She's 4 she knows the rules but understands them as much as someone her age can. She's a work in progress.
    Oh and that Marianne that posted, she lives in my area. Now, I know what she looks like, will keep girl child way far away from her if she shows up at the rink.
    ..and that pic. wowzah!

  • tinyskaters

    Without these “little skaters”, what would become of many clubs? Aren't these kids the future of the clubs and the future of figure skating. I briefly (very briefly) looked at the page and was HORRIFIED (where is that dang “dislike” button?). Just like many other posters, I think the “tongue and cheek” intention is lost, since many people experience this everyday. I am soooo glad we are members of our local club, because although I'm sure these thoughts cross people's mind, they would NEVER act on it and overall, our club is extrememly accepting of the “little skaters”. What most appalled me is the comments about public sessions? Do these skaters have no common sense? Public sessions are for the public. I think that rinks that have this as a continuous problem should offer high level ice time at a premium. You want “private” ice, pay for it…

  • KK

    Whether they want to admit it or not, chances are most of the high level skaters started out getting in people's ways too on their first freestyle sessions (I'm pretty sure I did). The best way for beginners to learn is for a coach to tell them the basic rules of the ice (lutz corner, spins in the middle, who has the right of way,etc.). Hopefully after skating a few freestyles they will begin to understand. When I skated, I understood that even on high level freestyles, people get in each other's ways, it's unavoidable. It never bothered me except when the other person would constantly do it and never even bother to say sorry. But if it really bothers you then I would suggest looking into a high freestyle session rather than one that is open to everyone.

  • help me read your post

    It would help if you capitalized letters and maybe separated your comment into more paragraphs. This was really tough to read.

  • Momma Bear

    Wow. I can't believe this comment–and that it comes from a mom, no less. I guess now we know how the kids who post on this facebook page came to be so selfish and intolerant.

    More substantively, perhaps this poster doesn't realize that the expensive ice time that she complains about “clueless munchkins” using would be even more expensive if not subsidized by the “munchkins”. Everyone on the session pays the same fee for the ice, and deserves the opportunity to use it, whether practicing doubles like this poster's daughter, or singles like my (not clueless, thank you very much) munchkin. But don't you dare expect my munchkin to subsidize your “elite” ice and then try to bully her off the ice!

  • TCC

    Perhaps my post was misunderstood. Our rink has rules – you are not supposed to even be on freestyle ice unless you are at least ISI freestyle one level. Unfortunately our rink doesn't pay attention to the rules and sometimes there are girls out there who can't even do a waltz jump & skate very slowly. So slowly that they would be incapable of moving out of a higher level skaters way. (Which is dangerous!) In fact my VERY well mannered daughter is OVERLY careful (to the point of paranoia) and will not even jump within 10 FEET of anyone. I have told her to always give the munchkins a wide berth (esp since some muchkins parents will yell at the higher level kid if there is even a near run in!) As a result my daughter will spend half of her expensive ice time circling the ice looking for a spot to jump. I agree with Xan that the real problem is poor rink management & mostly a lack in the coaches, they should be the ones to teach ice management. The buddy thing is good in theory, except at our rink most of the muchkins parents would take it the wrong way if an older skater even tried to speak to the muchkin. But thank you Momma Bear for a good laugh – the thought of my daughter bullying a munchkin off the ice cracks me up. She's too busy skating a wide path around them for FEAR of the “momma bear” mothers who all think their daughter's are the next Michelle Kwan.! :~D

  • http://icemom.net Ice Mom

    Holy cow! I'm gone for a day and this thing has exploded! Sorry I was out – migraine. I'll read your comments now.

    Ice Mom

  • http://icemom.net Ice Mom

    Hey, Jozet. I love this:

    why don't the older skaters show some leadership and get together and find a positive, proactive way to approach and fix the situation? Most skaters are part of some club, yes? The club isn't just for moms or parents to figure out how to fund raise and run a few test sessions – the club is the skaters' club. Get together, meet, discuss, and ask run an information session or put info in the newsletter.

    I like it so much, that I think I'm going to ask our club to have a skater's committee. We have a skater's representative on the board, but we need these kids to take ownership and leadership of their ice.

    Well said.

    Ice Mom

  • http://icemom.net Ice Mom

    You're absolutely right, mimi. I hear some parents of upper-level skaters at our club say the same thing. “You were once a little skater, too.”

    Great point.

  • http://icemom.net Ice Mom

    Hey, Xan. I love what you wrote here:

    The issue is unresponsive management that refuses to fix and sometimes even to acknowledge the problem. I have a problem from the outset with mixed level ice, especially mixed level ice with no restrictions (for instance, no full runthroughs about Juvenile on ice with Prelim and lower skaters, or high ice means you must have an axel) but I understand that some ice doesn't have the enrollment to limit it.

    We'd love to split up the ice at our club, but we just don't have enough skaters to fill a high and a low-level ice session. That's the problem.

    I do feel compassion for some girls who are working on their double Axels and their triples. They have to circle and circle and circle to find the right time to jump without smearing some poor Basic 5. I think this is the source of their frustration: these little kids just skate aimlessly with no predictable pattern.

    Thanks, Xan, for the great advice – as always!

  • http://icemom.net Ice Mom

    You know, tinyskaters, what you wrote really resonated with me:

    You want “private” ice, pay for it…

    I remember when Ice Girl was on club ice for one of her first club sessions. Yeah, my kid was a speedbump. She had zero ice sense at that point.

    A clueless dad was talking to me. He said, “It's kids like that (pointing at Ice Girl) who make it impossible for Hayley to learn her triples. You know she's the only one in the history of the universe who has ever landed a triple Axel.”

    “Huh,” I said.”You must be very proud.”

    “My Hayley is the reason that kids like that (again pointing to my kid) join this club.”

    “Really?” I said. “Which one is your daughter?”

    After he pointed out the wonder that is Hayley, I said, “Well, Clueless, if my daughter were that talented I would buy her her own ice session.”

    That shut him up!

  • http://icemom.net Ice Mom

    No suggestions for page names from me, but I second your idea. If/when you need help making the page, count me in!

  • http://icemom.net Ice Mom

    You are very wise, sk8rmomp. This is really smart:

    I hate to say it, but “Big Brother” is watching, and these kids should know that in the future, it would be a shame if, when they have a chance to go to an international event to represent their country, they might not be chosen due to something they did when they were young and ignorant.

    I would advise my child to stay far away from anything like this, lest he be tarred with the very same brush.

    No one should ever put anything online that she wouldn't her preacher, teacher, mother, coach, or employer to read. I would include in that Liking a fan page.

    You can bet that I had this conversation with Ice Girl.

  • http://icemom.net Ice Mom

    I totally agree with you, szuszu! It would be so much better for these kids to choose the nice way instead of the shouting way or the jump-on-top-of-little-kids way.

    However, many of these kids are under strict coach scrutiny. Maybe not at your rink, but at our rinks, some coaches watch their skaters very closely. They may not, under any circumstances, talk to other kids on the ice or do anything that isn't practice.

    Yeah, crazy.

    You wrote:

    But I still wonder, why can't the more experienced skaters try to be helpful and talk to the younger skaters?

    I think it's a culture thing. I think we need to change that culture.

    Thanks for the great comment!

  • http://icemom.net Ice Mom

    I forgot! I loved this part:

    Most younger skaters are in awe of the more accomplished skaters and IMO would be happy to accommodate the request.

    I think people forget or don't know how much power they really have. We can use it for good (influence little kids) or evil (jump on top of little kids). Either way, it sends a message.

    Great point, szuszu!

  • http://icemom.net Ice Mom

    I am so swiping the mentoring/buddy idea. I'm not calling it my own, I'm just going to recommend it to our club's board. It's such a positive approach to the problem.

  • http://icemom.net Ice Mom

    Hey, Sk8nln. I love this idea:

    A current skater and parent actually goes over the contract with them and I think this helps. Also this year we tried a mentor program where one of the seasoned skaters takes a new skater under their wings. The new skater knows they can go their mentor and ask questions. This has actually helped quite a bit. Does it take care of the worry no, but has opened the line of communication between our skaters and built a better community.

    I think that when a skater knows another skater personally, the other skater isn't that little kid anymore, but a cute, hero-worshiping newbie.

    I also like the idea that someone goes over the etiquette contract with new families. People tend not to read or to understand what they've read. This is a great idea.

    Thanks!

    Ice Mom

  • http://icemom.net Ice Mom

    Hey, Nicole! Have you tried using the Edit feature for comments? Let me know if you don't see it when you login.

    Thanks!

  • momma bear

    Ok, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and I apologize if my post was judgmental. (To me, your original post sounded a bit like a rant against munchkins, or for that matter anyone less advanced than the senior skaters). But I should just butt out of this discussion anyway, because we are lucky to skate at a rink with tons of available ice time, and sessions divided into many levels, so these issues don't become a problem–our Olympians/hopefuls have high level/restricted ice, and our pre-pre girls doing their first competitions have low level ice, and the adults have ice of their own, too. Which I guess proves Xan's point, that proper ice management is the solution.

    But no, I don't think my daughter is the next Michelle Kwan–she's just trying to improve her skills because she loves to skate…and idolizes the skaters like your daughter!. (wink, wink)

  • http://silver-blades.blogspot.com/ Silver Blades

    This all comes down to respect for each other on the ice. As a competitive adult, I skate on freestyle ice with kids that are both higher and lower levels than me. My coach taught me the club rules and I obey them best I can. I have no problem with a six year old begining skater cutting me off. I get that. I have a problem when the older high level kids don't respect the rules for whatever reason (she's not a club member, she's only an adult, she not competing/testing, etc). I had this problem the other night. I tried to skate my program and the kids didn't get out of my way even though I had the right of way. And these are high level kids that should know better. Their coaches should know better. The coaches and parents need to police the kids. They need to be taught the rules but there also need to be consequences when the rules are broken. This is a danagerous sport and we need to respect each other out on the ice. We HAVE to be able to share and take turns. This is also good sportsmanship. Sorry this ended up as a vent but it can be very very frustrating for all involved. It bums me out when I can't have a good practice because everyone is constantly getting in each others way.

  • tinyskaters

    HA HA! Love this!

    I actually talked to a coach at our club about this situation tonight. He was appalled (he is also the holder of multiple national titles and an olympic medal!). His response to those who don't like “little skaters”: “If you are practicing an axel and don't have the control to manage yourself around little skaters, that axel is the least of your problem. Gain control of your skating, gain respect for the sport, and appreciate that those little girls want to be you someday.” I love this guy!

  • invisiblesk8r129A

    Haha your daughter sounds like me. When I started skating I was involved in 3 collisions within a short period. One was my fault – I looked over my shoulder and somehow in the instant between checking that they were spinning and moving my head back to a not-so-twisted position I ended up in a heap on the floor with the spinning kid, even though I was like 5 feet away. The other two crashes happened during class – one with an oblivious coach (I mean, how do you focus on one student to the point that you run into another one?), the other with a girl who changed direction so fast that I still don't know how she did it (I mean the kid practically jumped onto me; there was nothing I could have even done). I get really paranoid about running into people, I think because it happened a lot when I was learning.

  • SuperSkater

    Not a rant against munchkins, just ones that don't know the rules, which is ultimately the coach's fault. I dream of a rink like yours with tons of ice time sorted by skating levels, etc. We have everything from a Novice lady who cuts my (Intermediate) daughter off every chance she gets & skates so aggressively that she has gotten numerous complaints from “Little Skater” mothers, to super slow adult ice dancers who STAND STILL in Lutz corners when they see my daughter approaching! (come on, how dumb can they be???) We also have a little girl ( 7ish?) who has her axel – her mom is one of those “my ice princess is the next Kwan” mothers. My daughter's friend had a MILD run in with this munchkin (friend was in lesson & had right of way) then the munchkin's mom actually CAME OUT ON THE ICE to YELL at my daughter's friend! This lady is nutso, she was calling their house at night, etc. Of course most munchkins parents are not nutso… But as you can see at our rink there is plenty to rant about – obnoxious Novice Lady, munchkins oblivious to other skaters no matter their level, slow adult skaters, ice dancers, synchro girls standing and chatting, etc, etc. Whew, that made me tired just to type all that. Now I have to take my daughter to the rink and experience all that…..

  • SuperSkater

    Whoops the post below is me (TCC) – I signed up with DISQUS and it changed my name (the joke is I'm not the SuperSkater (I can't do a crossover) but there was a coach who used to call my daughter that….

  • http://twitter.com/icemom icemom

    I love this coach, too!

    “If you are practicing an Axel and don't have the control to manage yourself around little skaters, that Axel is the least of your problem. Gain control of your skating, gain respect for the sport, and appreciate that those little girls want to be you someday.”

  • http://twitter.com/crzyreader Faith Ngoc

    How about “The Facebook Coalition For Friendly Figure Skaters”? :)

  • http://twitter.com/icemom icemom

    . I have a problem when the older high level kids don't respect the rules for whatever reason (she's not a club member, she's only an adult, she not competing/testing, etc). I had this problem the other night. I tried to skate my program and the kids didn't get out of my way even though I had the right of way.

    This is a huge problem, Silver Blades. I don't think it's limited to just one or two clubs, either.

  • http://twitter.com/icemom icemom

    When I skated, I understood that even on high level freestyles, people get in each other's ways, it's unavoidable. It never bothered me except when the other person would constantly do it and never even bother to say sorry

    This is a problem that Ice Girl has. I'm not a skater, so it's had for me to really tell, but she says that sometimes skaters get in one another's way on purpose.

  • Silver Blades

    It is definately not limited to one or two clubs. I skate on multiple surfaces with three different clubs and I have had this problem on all ice surfaces. Strangly enough it will even vary on the same session, in the same rink with the same club but a different mix of skaters. It can also get ugly just prior to the club's competition. Too many ice divas skating at once ;-)

  • http://icemom.net Ice Mom

    Too many ice divas skating at once ;-)

    Ha! Sometimes that's the issue. I'm really going to push for a big-little skater mentoring program at our club. I think that it could cause goodwill.

    What to do about the adults, though? Silver Blades, what would you like to see happen?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kerensa-Baughman-Miller/1309897073 Kerensa Baughman Miller

    Wouldn't that be wonderful!!

  • just stop the maddness!

    im not little, but sometimes those high level skaters look at me like get out of the middle ice crap. so i go to the end and skate. ive ran into 3 people as long as ive been there and i get glares, but i dont care! and when im a high level skate im gonna give advice to little ones not hate them! i think that would be a better solution that making so stupid, negitive face book page!is why i dont have one of them rediculus things!

    gooood!

  • just stop the maddness!

    im not little, but sometimes those high level skaters look at me like get out of the middle ice crap. so i go to the end and skate. ive ran into 3 people as long as ive been there and i get glares, but i dont care! and when im a high level skate im gonna give advice to little ones not hate them! i think that would be a better solution that making so stupid, negitive face book page!is why i dont have one of them rediculus things!

    gooood!

  • sk8rtif

    Don’t know how I ran across this older post, but I hear and understand what you’re all saying. I “liked” this FB page way back in March maybe. At that time, it came across more as an adult created page for a little sarcastic venting and not mean spirited.

    I revisited the page today and after seeing the mean spirited posts, have “unliked it.”

    I am an adult skater (late 30′s), who didn’t skate as a child. I have been that clumsy, slow skater on a freestyle session. Now, I will always give wide berth to less experienced and lower level skaters as they are most likely to make quick erratic moves in a direction you would not anticipate. My actual issues on the ice are with the mid-high level skaters on our mixed freestyle (the only fs offered at my rink). It’s actually the students of two coaches at our rink that are the issue. If the coach doesn’t teach etiquette you can’t expect a 6, 7 and 8 year olds to figure it our on their own.

    I originally found the fb page to be funny as it’s usually the adults that end up hurt when there are run ins with the little ones at my rink. Another adult skater had a young skater skate right into her and her wrist, although not broken, has been immobilized for months. I had a cast removed (finally) two weeks ago after I broke my left wrist in three places on a lutz fall due to a little skater not moving out of the way during my program run through in a lesson with orange vest on. I was training for a competition and while my wrist was in the cast, I was very afraid to skate around anyone, so I contacted the rink and booked private ice to complete my training and compete. Now that the cast is off, I’m working really hard to not let my mind get the best of me and get used to skating around other people without the fear of breaking.

    Long story short (this morning 10.21.10) the page had 1504 fans, now it has 1503!

  • Ngsk8girl95

    Hmm I like that. I’m actually a figure skater (15) and am working on triples, but I still watch out for the little skaters on the ice. I know the program patterns of the skaters who are at the rink the most, and try to move out of their way. For some of the girls who are there nearly everyday that I’m there, I can have my back turned and still move out of their way because I know the music and what element they’re going to do next. Hmm that sort of sounds like I just stand at the boards all the time and observe the other skater’s programs, but I don’t, I promise haha. I think the younger skaters are so cute! This one little girl (probably 6 or 7?) got in my way and she looked up at me terrified and goes “I’M SORRYYY!!!” and I smiled at her and said “Its ok”. And then she smiled at me. So I just wanted to tell Sk8nln that her daughter is not “crazy” and that it’s actually extremely helpful.

  • Cynthia

    My skater’s not little but she’s not big yet either.  We’ve been on both ends of this in just the last few days.  Talking to the coach, we both watched my kid mindlessly back almost into an older skater the other day and both of us kinda winced and then the coach pointed out to her that she needed to be more carful (she was more calm and gentle about it than I’d have been as mom so I was glas she said something first).  Just the other night, just skating around after a lesson, in the warm-up time before Learn to Skate classes, not even doing anything, kinda taking a break, my daughter just ATE IT.  Out of the blue.  Her knees are both black and blue and she really could’ve hurt herself.  Our best guess is that one of the little guys must’ve clipped her from behind…we can’t even be sure.  But it’s a little scarey.  I also watched a Junior-level guy practicing earlier that night almost spin right into a much smaller skater.  He cringed mid-jump when he saw her and managed to not fall but really could’ve.  He was gracious and kinda laughed it off. It really goes both ways.  Little ones need to be taught how to stay out of the way and safe.  Older skaters need to be gracious and careful too. 

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