What to Do When Figure Skating Judges Seem Unfair

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Our skater doesn't compete very often, so my question is whether the club or the coach (if they notice them at rinkside) can influence a judge either for good or bad. Are we doomed if we belong to the “wrong” club or have the “wrong” coach? Are some coaches' reputations so good that their skaters will always finish well, regardless of how they skate? Do the skaters that belong to the club hosting the competition sometimes receive special consideration? Just wondering.

Q: What's the difference between a dead skunk in the road and a dead figure skating judge in the road?
A: Skid marks in front of the skunk.

Now the serious response. I actually believe that very little shenanigans goes on at the kinds of competitions we attend. There's really just not enough at stake to cheat. Sorry, but the judges don't care whether Suzi or Nancy wins and these competitions move so fast that there isn't time to cheat. That said, from personal experience I know that judges will hold up skaters or coaches whom they want to progress. There is always a personal preference element, that's why it's a “judged” and not a “scored” sport and is at the heart of the problem with the IJS, which tries to score the unscoreable.

ISI competitions are judged by coaches; rinks try to make sure that multiple rinks are represented on the judging to avoid bias, and ISI has a pretty fool-proof system for keeping the judging balanced. It's hard to cheat on an ISI panel.

The bigger problem, sad to say, is incompetence, which term I use quite broadly, ranging from poor understanding of the rules right through actual stupidity. I have seen ISI judges try to score poorly executed elements, which would get a low score, as “missed” elements, which carries an actual penalty. For instance, not enough rotations on a spin. We had a judge's panel argument over this once, because one hardass was trying to say that if it only went around 4 times, that means she got a zero because she didn't do the element. Oh for god's sake, why not actually whip the child also? Can't let her get away with that!

At Basic Skills competitions, again you've got coaches judging. I've been to some training sessions for this, and there was HUGE disagreement over placement. It was insane–made me wonder if we'd all been looking at the same skaters. At the nonquals and regionals, you get lower-level judges who are still working on their qualifications, so, again, you'll get more of a range than you do at higher level competitions, simply because the judges are less experienced.

Your coach can invite judges to observe a skater before nonqual competitions (don't do this under Pre-Juv). For qualifying competition this is practically a requirement. If you want to know what the judges are looking for, ask the judge. Ask the skating director to observe before an ISI competition, and a trustworthy fellow coach, from whom you're able to take criticism, to observe before a basic skills competition.

My daughter started out doing mostly ISI and for the most part the judging was fair. There are about 4 – 5 local ISI competitions every year & at each one the host rink is nearly always accused of favoring it's own skaters. At one of these competitions it became so bad that most skaters from other rinks stopped going to their competition which is sad. As far as USFSA competitions I have seen skaters with great technical stuff but no artistry still get very high artistic scores. And other times you see a skater with a fall or two held up in the placements by their “artistry” or PCS scores. For the juveniles & intermediates that is all well & good until you get to Junior Nationals. There you will NOT get good PCS scores unless you have really earned them. There is a skater from our area (Intermediate level) who went to Junior Nats last year assuming she would make the final round because she has a nice double axel. Well the double axel was nice but with little artistry she still did not even come close to making the final round. In figure skating the scoring is ultimately subjective and you will see both good and bad scoring. You child may skate their best and be 5th or have a rough skate and still be 1st. The point is that they skate to the best of THEIR abilities – the point is not the placement. You can be in a group of 15 really good intermediate skaters and get 7th place and be thrilled with that or you could be in a little ISI competition with 5 girls in your group and get 1st – there are HUGE differences in group size between ISI and USFSA! That's what I love about the new judging system – you are trying to improve your SCORE not focusing so much on placement. At some competitions the skaters are much better quality than at others. You may get 34 points at one competition and get 3rd place but at the next competition that same score will only get you 8th place. Well, now I have veered off from the topic of unfair judging but the answer is that yes, you WILL see unfair judging in figure skating just know that from the start…. A friend of our at our rink always told her daughter this & I started telling it to mine too: “You can't control what the judges do, you can only control what you do” – and they should be proud with a good skate no matter the placement!

Is it bad that I like this joke?

With judging some bias always exists. I think judges try to be fair and impartial (at least at the local type competitions), but it is difficult for a judge to completely distance themselves from their thoughts and feelings. Some judges have pet peeves that they may unfairly take credit away from a skater. Some people may think a judges dislikes a coach, when they may just dislike the style that coach's skaters have. Judges get to recognizing skaters after a while. Sometimes thinking “oh, this kid was good last time” can run through the back of the brain and maybe add points to the score. I don't think judges try to criticize things like hair and costuming in their scoring (unless it is inappropriate/against rules or regulations), but they can contribute to that “overall look” or “total package” perception. I think sometimes music can have a large impact. Not because the judge necessarily wants that to be the case, but because, let's face it, judges are human. Listening to the same song over and over (haven't we all been to competitions where at least 3 kids used the same music, and at least 2 of them skated back-to-back?) can put a judge to sleep. Also, judges have to pay attention and be focused for long periods of time. I know some parents watch competitions like hawks, but really, how many people were in the stands focus on every single thing every single skater did for the entire event? Try to pay attention that long. Try to create scores and ranking for the skaters. It's not easy. (Also, my pet peeve – it's always the parents who DON”T watch the whole event that complain the loudest and longest. It's been a YEAR, get over it.) Also, depending on the venue, the perspectives of the audience and judges can be very different, and this can create a big difference in perception of how people should place. Sometime the judges sit low and the spectators sit high, sometimes the opposite. Sitting at the sides versus ends of the rink can also create a distortion of perspective. I think most judges try to judge fairly and present their honest opinion in their scoring.

That being said, I have also seen the local politics (everybody knows everybody; that's just how skating is) play out at competitions as well. I have seen some coaches go into apoplexy over who is on the judging panel, I have seen rinks overload “their” judges onto events where they have skaters they want to push up or gain a reputation, I have seen judges play favorites, and I have seen the scores vary so wildly that a skater was ranked both first and last for the same event. Local events tend to have a large mix of experienced and new judges. This is good – because we need to encourage new judges and give them the experience (also, sometimes they are less in tune with the politics), but also bad because you want your kid to be seen by the “good judges” who will be at higher level competitions (and sometimes new judges are MORE in tune with the politics because they want to be asked back to judge at other events).

So with judging… it's a mixed bag. Talking to judges is good. Judges are like most people with opinions – they won't mind sharing them.

I think you're right:

let's face it, judges are human

I don't think judges wake up in the morning and think, Oh, good! I get to go crush a 7-year-old's figure skating dream!

I also know that judges agonize about having the score that's the outlier In the example you gave of the scoring span where a skater gets both a first and a last in an event, I think that one of those judges is embarrassed.

I really like this, SuperSkater:

“You can't control what the judges do, you can only control what you do” – and they should be proud with a good skate no matter the placement!

You're exactly right. Almost every sport has some subjectivity to it. Instead of lamenting the bad calls, it's so much better to focus on the positive.

Thanks for the comment!

Ah, Xan! You make me smile!

I tell you, I was worried about the vulture photos, but they were just so good that I couldn't resist. Ice Girl laughed at them and said they looked like a judge in fur coat. She's also happy because the vultures are smiling. I don't know. Do vultures smile? You've seen them in their natural habitat, Xan: the judging box and the judge's room. Do they smile?

I blog anonymously. This is a good thing.

Hey, Xan. I think you make a great point: there's a difference between judging and scoring.

Why can't a judge observe and comment on lower-level skaters?

Great questions, Denise! I will be sure to ask them!

You know, some parent/troll from a neighboring club told a friend of mine that her daughter will never be taken seriously because she's from a recreational club.

That's garbage. And he's an idiot.

That said, I do think that judges come in with expectations for certain coaches' students.

Thanks!

Er. Is it bad that I put vulture photos on this post?

You mentioned one of my pet peeves – why at some competitions do the judges sit low (near the ice) & at others they are way up in the rafters??? That is CRAZY – I’ve seen that & I’ve always said that you can’t tell me they are able to see every little thing they need to see from that high up. I know some rinks are not set up for them to easily sit low but I think there should be some kind of rule that they HAVE to be near the ice, have the comp at another rink, whatever you have to do. You can’t tell me that from up in the rafters they can see every little cheat on a jump, etc. That is unfair!

You mentioned one of my pet peeves – why at some competitions do the judges sit low (near the ice) & at others they are way up in the rafters??? That is CRAZY – I've seen that & I've always said that you can't tell me they are able to see every little thing they need to see from that high up. I know some rinks are not set up for them to easily sit low but I think there should be some kind of rule that they HAVE to be near the ice, have the comp at another rink, whatever you have to do. You can't tell me that from up in the rafters they can see every little cheat on a jump, etc. That is unfair!

I would have to say the only example I could think of where it might be beneficial to have the judges sit up high would be synchro. I may be wrong (I have watch only a few synchro competitions), but I think it is easier to see the shapes, patterns, and straightness of lines from up high. There are so many skaters taking up so much of the rink, that you need to sit high to see them all. And not necessarily rafters high, but elevated enough to be able to see everything at once. But for individuals or pairs or dance skaters? I agree closer is better, because it is easier to see quality of edges, jumps, spins, footwork and the like.

I would have to say the only example I could think of where it might be beneficial to have the judges sit up high would be synchro. I may be wrong (I have watch only a few synchro competitions), but I think it is easier to see the shapes, patterns, and straightness of lines from up high. There are so many skaters taking up so much of the rink, that you need to sit high to see them all. And not necessarily rafters high, but elevated enough to be able to see everything at once. But for individuals or pairs or dance skaters? I agree closer is better, because it is easier to see quality of edges, jumps, spins, footwork and the like.

Hey, invisible. I’ll be on the phone with a judge tonight; I’m going to ask her about this as an advantage to synchro judging. Great question – thanks!

Hey, invisible. I'll be on the phone with a judge tonight; I'm going to ask her about this as an advantage to synchro judging. Great question – thanks!

Yes, I had not thought about synchro, I would agree that is probably easier to see from up high. For all the other events the closer the better. Most synchro comps are separate anyway…

Yes, I had not thought about synchro, I would agree that is probably easier to see from up high. For all the other events the closer the better. Most synchro comps are separate anyway…

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